conditional immortality churches

It will be destroyed. Notice, Paul also tells us exactly what the punishment of the lost is: “Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9). For further proof that the beast and the false prophet are evil spirits and not human beings, consider Revelation 16:13: “And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon (Satan), and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.” First of all, notice that the beast and the false prophet are spoken of on a par with the devil himself here; this signifies that they are evil spirits…. (see Matthew 1:21) What Conditional Immortality correctly and simply teaches is that immortality is conditional. I prayed for discernment, and I have it now. Do we torture them endlessly? However, do not believe for a moment that those who hold to Conditional Immortality believe there is no payment for those who have done evil in this life. p. 118). I somehow missed the revelation by which they know this. How many have turned away from the faith because they wrongly believed tradition and not the scriptures? And if it be as important as it is supposed to be now, it was equally important then. However, there will be a resurrection one day of all humanity, a bodily resurrection. He cannot state it more clearly in verse 24, “And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses.”. 6:23). I cannot stress this enough. “I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.” (John 10:10). Were any of the sacrifices tortured forever? William West states this more of these thoughts most forcefully: ADAM: God told Adam in the day he ate he would die. They are not used with these meaning in our everyday language. Conditional Immortality: The Case for Orthodoxy on the Doctrine of Annihilationism - Kindle edition by Tanoto, Tanwin. So I ask, why do some Christians seem so upset if the lost are not tortured forever? How does “everlasting contempt” become “everlasting torture”? “For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.” In other words, immortality is a gift of God which He gives in His grace to the redeemed at the time of their resurrection. Conditional Immortality in the Protestant Churches - Pamphlet | Louis Elbe | ISBN: 9781428685871 | Kostenloser Versand für alle Bücher mit Versand und Verkauf duch Amazon. The literal meaning is the first meaning used unless context declares otherwise. Those who consider themselves “pro-life” really need to reconsider the logic of their positions if they believe in eternal torture. Because he was not teaching it at all. The prospect of one day seeing them agonizing in hell for all eternity can easily lead thinking Christians to say to God: “No thank you God. The truth of God’s Word helps us see the ultimate fate of unbelievers and helps us motivate them to come to salvation today, to life, to everlasting life. Scripturally, the choice is between destruction (not preservation in torment) and life! (J. Stott and D. Edwards, Essentials: A Liberal-Evangelical Dialogue, London, Hodder & Stoughton, 1988, p. 316); Stott is correct. However, the “wage of sin” (Romans 6:23) is ultimately death, not the suffering process in getting to death itself. The fact that it is gaining ground must be the reason why a few are writing responses to it. The concept of eternal torment seems to convert the true God of justice into a cosmic sadist. ABOUT ME. Are you saying there is no "punishment" for the unsaved ? It is rather interesting that most believe “death” is the worst punishment you can face on this earth in a court of law, yet do not believe this about Judgment day in God’s court. It is argued that these passages, along with Genesis 3:22–24 teach that human beings will naturally die without continued access to God's life-giving power. This is the only interpretation of Revelation 14:9-11 that would be consistent with how the rest of Scripture uses such language and with what the rest of the Scriptures teach concerning the final and ultimate end of the wicked. Yet most refuse to turn to God for this gift. “My mind fails to conceive a grosser misinterpretation of language then when the five or six strongest words which the Greek tongue possesses, signifying “destroy,” or “destruction,” are explained to mean maintaining an everlasting but wretched existence. He has written a book entitled, Man’s Ignorance and God’s Grace: A Case for Conditional Immortality. Their sentence and punishment of death will last forever. That judgment would certainly be worse than the crime itself! Therefore, Conditional Immortality correctly affirms the biblical position that the souls of the lost people will all be destroyed at the end of the age. Gehenna was a place where worms and fires lived, but not people! . We also read in Isaiah 34:10 that while Edom was burning day and night the smoke of the city would ascend up forever and ever. ", "The Destruction of the Finally Impenitent", "The Immortality of the Soul and The doctrine of demons". He took the punishment we deserve. God only has immortality–anyone else becomes immortal only as a result of God’s gracious gift (1 Timothy 6:16, Romans 2:7). The following excerpt is taken from the website http://www.hellhadesafterlife.com/hell on this topic: Aarons sons Nadab and Abihu took their censors, put fire in them and added incense; and they offered unauthorized fire before the LORD, contrary to his command. If Adam and Eve would have eaten of the tree of life in their sinful state that would have been a disaster. Not one word was said about a curse after this lifetime. Acts 7:54–When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth. Questions and major problems for those who hold to the eternal torment position. No doubt there is an amount of terror and conscious pain to this type of execution, but it is not sadistically never ending, it mercifully results in death. More than that, the death He died was in some true and real sense the sinner’s death,the death required by sin, the death we should have died…The Old Testament prophets spoke of “the sufferings of Christ” and the “glories that would follow” (1 Peter 1:11). Also, the word “Gehenna” is what Jesus used whenever he spoke of “hell” and that was the name of the garbage dump in Jerusalem! I place them here only for you to see as items of interest. In contrast, the opposers of conditional immortality included Pope Leo X who on Monday, December 19th, 1513 issued a Bull (Apostoloici regimis) declaring: "We do condemn and reprobate all … This would be called “cruel and unusual punishment.” The 8thAmendment to the United States Constitution states this. Its duration is supposed co-existent with the period of his natural life.”, (Edward W. Fudge, The Fire That Consumes. The New Testament writers used the Old Testament types to show how the destruction of sinners in the hands of an angry God happens. Jesus informs us that sinners will NOT be preserved in the fire (like the burning bush was), but rather will be “burned up”–just the opposite of preservation. NOTE: When the devil or the beast and the false prophet were thrown in the lake of fire, we read no word about a second death. “The Abyss,” according to scripture, is the furnace-like pit where evil spirits are imprisoned, not human beings (see Luke 8:31; Revelation 9:1-2 and 20:1-3)…Likewise, the false prophet is referred to as “another beast” (13:11-17, 16:13 and19:20). See www.robertwr.com for more information. You see, we can always be absolutely confident of the fact that God’s judgments are completely righteous and just; and God is not quick in making a judgment; he is ”compassionate and gracious, slow to anger abounding in love” (Psalm 103:8); ”He is patient not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance” (2Peter 3:9b). Church as consisting of people who have been “saved” from a penalty OTHER than the one the Bible declares awaits the “unsaved”! Don’t you have to redefine every single one of these words in order to get eternal torment as the final fate of the unsaved? The Jewish encyclopedia tells us the same thing: The belief in the immortality of the soul came to the Jews from contact with Greek thought and chiefly through the philosophy of Plato, its principal exponent, who was led to it through Orphic and Eleusinian mysteries in which Babylonian and Egyptian views were strangely blended. Both worms and fire speak of a total and final destruction. Likewise, in the New Testament writings, the word for “soul” (psukee) is never used in conjunction with the words “eternal” or “everlasting.”. The truth is, the abundant life Jesus (Yeshua) promises us is in eternity, it is immortal life, everlasting life. Conditional immortality as a label became popular in the nineteenth century for its ability to more holistically describe a view many Christians know as annihilationism. Or do you believe that God does have the ability to destroy the soul, but chooses not to? (Edward W. Fudge, The Fire That Consumes. After they have received their appropriate “stripes,” then they will “perish” as John 3:16 states. Look at Capital Punishment in theory. The second death could not mean eternal torment because it is linked to the first death. It will be Judgment Day to be exact. In other words, you can’t keep on destroying something for all eternity. He wrote in the first chapter of this 2013 book, “‘Conditional Immortality’ is the biblical belief that the ‘immortality’ of the soul is not inherent (Greek philosophers thinking) but conditional (Biblical thinking) upon receiving the gift of everlasting life through faith in Jesus (Yeshua)… God alone has immortality---anyone else becomes immortal ONLY as a result of God’s gracious gift… For centuries, church … I am Jewish and I have been a believer in Jesus (Yeshua in Hebrew) for over 30+ years. John W. Sanderson Jr., “Review of The Truth about Seventh-Day Adventism by Walter R. Martin,”Westminster Theological Journal 23, no. (2 Peter 2:8). Why would immortality come through the gospel if all had it from birth? Jesus says Gehenna (hell) was specifically made for Satan and demons (Matthew 25:41), however fire does not affect angelic beings like humans. Paul clearly links immortality to the gospel. Thus, the view of final punishment promoted by many is actually in direct opposition to the teaching of Jesus Christ. In speaking of this place, Jeremiah said (actually God is speaking in this section of scripture) that it will be called the “Valley of Slaughter,” not the “Valley of everlasting torment” as modern mainstream Christianity suggests. Jesus states this plainly, “He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.” John 12:25. So from the hermeneutical principle that “scripture interprets scripture,” we can see very clearly that when Jesus (Yeshua) says: “There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.” Luke 13:28. Yeshua (Jesus) says specifically “both” in Matthew 10:28. So long as time goes on, nothing will remain at the site but the smoke of what once was Edom’s proud kingdom. (Immortality or Resurrection? The teaching of conditional immortality and destruction of the wicked is taught by . These groups may claim that the doctrine of conditional immortality reconciles two seemingly conflicting traditions in the Bible: the ancient Hebrew concept that the human being is mortal with no meaningful existence after death (see שאול, Sheol and the Book of Ecclesiastes), and the later Jewish and Christian belief in the resurrection of the dead and personal immortality after Judgment Day. So, if the receiving of this mark (whatever it may be) is on this earth, then the worshiping in 14:11 must also be on this earth. The punishment must fit the crime. It is important to notice here, however, that it is the fire that Jesus describes as enduring, NOT that which is cast into it. When the kings of the earth who committed adultery with her and shared her luxury see the smoke of her burning, they will weep and mourn over her.“. Jesus, when speaking of Gehennah (hell) quotes this verse in Isaiah. Also, Edward Fudge has been recognized by both “Who’s Who in Law” and “Who’s Who in Religion.” His book on this subject is a classic read by many scholars. Again, Dr. David Regan (who changed to Conditional Immortality after studying it) correctly notes: Finally, to me personally, the most convincing of all arguments against the Traditionalist viewpoint relates to what Jesus Himself suffered on the Cross. “…this mortal must put on immortality.” (1 Corinthians 15:53). A greater desire than wealth, fame, true love or sexual gratification? None of these attributes he lists here are inherent to mankind. Again, Paul did not believe the Greek philosophers who taught the immortality of all souls, neither did Yeshua (Jesus): I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Yes, God is holy! Download it once and read it on your Kindle device, PC, phones or tablets. It is called the Tehiyyat ha-Metim = “the resurrection of the dead” and even written in the Traditional Jewish prayer “the Shmona Esre”; and the writer of the book of Hebrews refers to this fact (the resurrection) as “foundational” teachings in Hebrews 6:1-2. He is not, by nature, immortal. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. . Life After Death.PDF (372k) Robert Joseph T., 28 Jul 2013, 04:44. v.1. Jesus says the wicked will NOT be preserved in the fire, the Traditionalists say they WILL. Reread that statement. “To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:” (Romans 2:7). Sodomites became ashes, Peter tells us the unsaved will also become ashes–not tormented forever as is erroneously taught. The parable that Jesus tells in Luke 19:27 teaches us that these ones will ultimately be slain, “But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.” Notice, they are eventually slain in the presence of the King, but not before they are tormented by His holiness and their sinfulness. Mortalist writers, such as Thomas Hobbes in Leviathan,[7] have often argued that the doctrine of natural (or innate) immortality stems not from Hebrew thought as presented in the Bible, but rather from pagan influence, particularly Greek philosophy and the teachings of Plato, or Christian tradition. Remember, Jesus Himself tells us that the fire was never made for humans, it was “prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41). 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